Following up on “Ginger’s Take” in Tuesday’s post, I wrote to Ginger.
“Your response was revealing, but you really did not answer my question (or I worded it poorly), so let me try again.
“What do gay guys think of girls like me? Do we amuse them? Do we disgust them? Do we impress them with out femulating skills? I ask because I found that gay guys at the few gay bars I have gone to don't seem too friendly. On the other hand, gay women seem to be more friendly.”
Ginger replied.
“Well, I'm probably not the best person to ask. I am a feminine gay man and feminine gays are a small minority in the population of gay men as a whole. Most gay men are masculine and are attracted to other masculine gay men. They don't ‘get it’ why or how gay men want to be feminine and/or why they are attracted to femininity. They don't understand why we don't transition into women. Because they don’t ‘get it’ (and because we are a small minority), they think we are freaks and resemble the homophobic image of what most gay men are like. They think we are the reason why the mainstream won’t accept and recognize gay men as part of the mainstream. We are attacked and beaten up by masculine gay men as we are by homophobic straight men.
“Most crossdressers can’t pass, so if one goes to a gay bar they are not going to receive a warm reception. If you look like a guy wearing woman’s clothes, you (like feminine gay men) present a negative stereotype image. Most of mainstream society believes the majority of crossdressers are gay – and continue to believe it even after being informed that the vast majority are straight, married and have kids.
“There is an exception – drag queens and female impersonators are gay, but don’t crossdress when on dates with men. Crossdressing is their “job” not an expression of a need or desire to be feminine.
“The lack of friendliness or even hostility you sense when you go into a gay bar isn’t your imagination – it’s real. Most don't like transgender people being part of the gay alphabet. ‘If a man completely transitions into becoming a woman and wants to date men, why then are they even aligned with homosexuals?’ they ask.”
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| Wearing Boston Proper |
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| Australian femulator, Lena, in 1973 and 2011 |
My current wife has a long-time gay friend who dislikes trans people because they're "not out enough". I don't understand the logic, it's only one person, and he can be pretty judgemental and controlling, but it's a possibility.
ReplyDeleteInteresting. I have been to a gay bar 3 times in my life - granted, one was a Drag Gay Bar (for those who know - Dragstrip 66 in LA) and every time I was greeted warmly and treated like a lady. Maybe it's a regional thing, too.
ReplyDeleteIf the bar has drag shows or at least sponsors an entry in the city's "Miss Gay "name the city" contest we're likely to treated very well. On one of my rare dressing nights in San Francisco a friend and I wandered into a gay bar that was populated with people wearing "lumberjack" shirts. Hey, it was in the early 1970's. The person checking ID's at the door let us know we weren't welcome there, but he gave us a business card of a CD/TG friendly bar. I've gone as Mikki to gay bars many, many times in the DC/Baltimore area and never had a problem. Over the years I've learned to "read" the crowd. If it's a serious "Man Bar" I know I won't have much fun, so I always move on to another spot.
ReplyDeleteover the many years i have been socialising in gay bars and clubs whilst dressed, i have never been antagonised by those they were set up to cater for (even on occasion mingling with the less-masculine variety). but then again, i stick to places where i know those of my persuasion are tolerated to at least some extent (whether convincing or otherwise, or regardless if they have any sexual interest in men or not). which meant the "bear" bars (where the hairy macho ones hang out - one of my local ones has been described as a gay version of "cheers") were strictly a no-go zone, and the sort of places where a virtual piano would stop playing if a trans-type happened to wander in off the street
ReplyDeletei remember a similar experience in my youth, where on that occasion i was in the majority for whom an event was intended for. that was a 70's disco night, where myself and others would boogie on down to the latest funky sounds. however in the corner lurked a small minority that had no interest in that at all and were into 60's soul instead, but because they didn't have enough numbers to form their own club, would wait until the jock indulged them by playing that stuff for half an hour at some point. whereupon i beat a hasty retreat to the bar or elsewhere, psychologically out of earshot if not physically so. as although rock fans might have thought it all sounded the same, to me it was like the difference between chopin's nocturnes and heavy metal!
WHY CANT EVERYONE JUST WORK TO GET ALONG?
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately, this is a classic human conundrum of how to organize people who have MORE IN COMMON than they have in DIFFERENCE.
Yet those persons who desperately need to ORGANIZE FOR MUTUAL AID AND PROTECTION somehow manage to divide themselves over petty issues.
What happened to:
An injury to one is an injury to all.
Have you notice how 'THE RICH AND POWERFUL' know to intrinsically organize AND work to screw the 'outsider' class?
It is as if they are working from the same playbook....And of course, they are, as their goal is always the same-- more WEALTH and POWER!
Velma
While I hate to make generalizations, I would also express that this post does not reflect my experience visiting any gay establishment while cross-dressed. That said, I live in a community which very much recognizes and respects the "T" in LGBT.
ReplyDeleteHi Stana, I couldn't e-mail you this so I am posting it hear. Thought you might find this interesting.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.boredpanda.com/confident-man-wears-heels-skirt-markbryan911/?utm_source=hellotaxi.websitetoolbox&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=organic
Giggles and Smiles Always,
Becca
That guy rocks a skirt and heels better than most women. Good for him. Thanks for the share Becca.
DeleteAngel Amore
He reminds me of Jean-Luc Picard--
Deletein a skirt, of course!
Velma