Yesterday, I wrote about women who are comfortable (to one degree or another) with their men dressing like a woman.
Although it is rare to find a woman who is ok with a femulating partner, it is easy to find women who are ok with other men dressing like women (as long as the femulating men are not "their" men).
I run into this all the time. When I encounter a female stranger and she discovers that I am en femme, in the majority of cases, she is fine with it. Often, she is very interested and even enthusiastic about it. Seldom do I get a negative reaction.
Those who are positive about my femulation say something to the effect that what I am doing is "wonderful." Yes, I have actually heard the word "wonderful" more than once from such enthusiasts.
And I don't look a gift horse in the mouth and ask, "What do you mean by that?"
Instead, I just go with the flow.
I can understand why a woman would not want her man to femulate, but I don't understand why women are ok and even enthusiastic about other men being en femme. Not that there is anything wrong with it, but it's a mystery wrapped in a riddle inside an enigma!
I surmise that having a femulating husband is seem as a negative reflection on a woman's own femininity.
ReplyDeleteMany woman would feel embarassed for themselves and their children if it were to become known in their social and family circles that her husband is a CD/TV/TS/TG/etc. Perhaps they feel that they would be viewed as being somewhat 'less of a woman' if their husband was out and about in a dress.
Most mornings I can get up, have my coffee, dress and get out the door in 20 minutes. If I am dressing en femme it could take me twice as long just to pick an outfit and coordinate it with the right undergarments, accessories and shoes. A GG may not have the motivation that we CDs do to go to the effort to get all dolled up.
When I have made it out I have received several compliments since I think that I do a pretty decent job for a 6' tall, large framed, 60 year old guy.
I wonder if women are OK with other men in dresses but not their own man since they may have feelings of competition.
I think I could come up with some other thoughts but you do ask some of the best questions.
Pat
I would tend to agree, as long as genetic women see the femulating man as not "their" man, everything is fine. I have experience of it.
ReplyDeleteNice article, Stana.
Wow - I'm very surprised by your post, only because it perfectly mirrors my situation!
ReplyDeleteMy wife is aware of my dabbling in cross-dressing. Mine cross-dressing is very rare, but whenever we've talked about it, it is a non-starter. Something she is very much interested in.
Imagine my surprise when were with three other couples (none of whom know anything about my cross-dressing) when she suggested that we all go to Asia SF - a restaurant in San Francisco where all the waiters are femulators, who also sing.
When I asked her about that - about why she seemed so excited to do that, when her reaction to me was so negative - she simply stated "well, I'm not married to them."
I forgot to say, I have also heard the word "wonderful" a few times, and it did refer to my femulation, but not in the same way yours did, Stana.
ReplyDeleteStana,
ReplyDeleteI think it has to do with threat proximity. The fact that "you" are femulating presents no threat the private lives of these women. They don't have a relationship with you, and you are not a threat to their perceptions and lives on an intimate level, as it might be if their husbands or boyfriends were femulators.
To this extent, it is a bit like a classic NIMBY issue -- Not In My Back Yard. People's valence on ideas and concepts change depending on how directly they will be affected. Looked at in this way, their reactions are not surprising and don't necessarily comprise a double-standard.
Flipped on its head, I wonder how well many of us would react if our wives and girlfriends became "masculinators" and donned fake facial hair, bound their breasts, and wore boxer shorts to bed. It is worth pondering the thought. My guess is we femulators would react even less well, because of our reverence for and emulation of the feminine form as the Standard of Aesthetic and Social Presentation.
-- Bette
I have had the following exact conversation on more than one occasion:
ReplyDeleteMe: do you mind a guy who crossdresses?
Woman: no
Me: would you mind if your guy crossdressed?
Woman: yes
And, as you say, so it goes.
There's not much to the mystery you speak of, it's actually quote simple.
ReplyDeleteMost women are perfectly fine with us doing what we do. What makes the difference is when it is their man, they have to worry about what their friends and family will think and say. When it's someone else, they don't have the same social pressures to deal with and so can express their real feelings on the subject. I haven't run into many women who were not ok with me doing what I do. I'm at work enfemme right now in fact and all of my coworkers are perfectly OK with that (all female).
I think some of the women may be afraid they are losing their man. Just because a man femulates, it doesn't mean he is out looking for a guy. But women are afraid they will lose their man to another man, where if her single friend Bob from the office dresses up, she simply thinks he will end up getting a boyfriend instead of a girlfriend, and she wishes him luck either way.
ReplyDeleteSome women may even feel inadequate - she's not enough to keep him, so he is looking elsewhere? She thinks it also reflects on her
My wife has expressed, on more than one occasion, that she only has a problem with it because I'm so secretive about it. That is, because I'm not openly TV or femulating then I must feel that it is wrong and shameful. If I feel that about the habit/addiction then it must actually *be* shameful and wrong.
ReplyDeleteWhen pressed she will claim that she is concerned about how *I* will be percieved by others and the embarrassment *I* would feel. Now, granted, that touches a nerve, I've femulated only twice and gone out in public as a TV only once. However, I can't help feeling that there's something else at play.
Perhaps it is primal, perhaps it is inadequacy.
On the subject of women masculinating, if my wife had expressed it as something she really wanted to do I think I would be supportive. I'd find it strange, but if she wanted to do it... well, I love her I guess. Mind you, that may be a submissive tendency of my own rather than some altruistic expression of love.
It's a fascinating debate.
I am pretty lucky in some respects,in that my wife has been out with me to the theatre, restaurents, pubs and shopping. We even visit friends of ours who accept me. However, there are certain friends and neighbours who she would not want to have see me or even know that I am TS.
ReplyDeleteHer limit is that it would break her heart if I transitioned.
The other thing I find very difficult to cope with, is that her acceptance waxes and wanes, so at any one time I don't know where I stand.
I wouldn't wish my condition on my worst enemy.
Quite simply, they are not attached to you and your femulations thus are comfortable having an appreciation that you appreciate your feminity, because they do of themselves.
ReplyDeleteI don't like to say this, but in general, women define who they are, by who they have picked as the man in their lives. I have this with Dee, She is always cautious to make sure that me being me, in any way shape or form doesn't make her (in her impression) look bad in the eyes of her peers. And she has a predjudice as to what she thinks others think. Clearly the base cause of women not wanting a Trans person as a mate, is because of what others think.
I just wanted to comment on Annoymus and her/his comment about we gurls (femulator) having a giy (masculator) for a partner. It actually turns me on, when Dee takes on the persona of a male. I used to think that I was attracted to feminine women, but learned that it is the strong confidante type that are type A females that turn me on, and they look great in either gowns or tuxes and stashes.. Just look at our wedding photo!
ReplyDeleteHere is a little naughty thought, to test the overall theory here and admittedly it might get me/you into trouble. But still, the very next time any of us is involved in a conversation with a woman who appears to be presenting an image of the "liberated women", and she states matter of factually, that she is a self made woman and doesn't need a man to define her. First ask her if shes married or dates men, then follow that question up by asking her if she would date a femulated man. If she says no, ask her why not. and don't let her get away with just saying she's not into kinky stuff.
ReplyDeleteIts because of the old joke:
ReplyDeleteWhat's the difference between a transvestite and a transsexual?
A couple of years.
Anonymous! Not in all cases, though genderly speaking you are correct. If a male person can not fully express his feminine self, and he can't live as a he then there is no question she is the right direction, but If he could. I'd say less then a quarter would. And I really believe this is way we see less numbers of ftm transgender then we do, and those that do stick out are doing everything in their power to be men. least the few therebetween who are just gender queer. I have a neice who is this way, is uncomfortable being a "girl" but likes some aspects of her body and her bodies reaction to stimuli.
ReplyDeleteFor years while keeping the girl locked up, raising a family, I thought I was doing fine. Mabe became harder to ignore and I wondered "Is she getting louder or is something else going on?" Now I find it easier to talk to a lady as a lady even if I am not dressed, I know somehow they know. Then I came across this...
ReplyDeleteAndropause / Mid-life Crisis
When a man (usually between the ages of 35 and 60) goes through the change of life, it is called andropause. At this time, testosterone levels decrease while the estrogen percentage increases. He becomes less aggressive and more gender neutral or softer in his actions and interests. This happens to all males to varying degrees. If he has previously demonstrated a desire or a proclivity to cross-dress, the hormonal changes during andropause can be a catalyst to begin cross-dressing again in earnest. This is sometimes referred to as mid-life crisis. Who am I? What have I done with my life? Is this the life that I want? These questions come out of a sense that time is running out, but are heightened by a change in the body's chemistry. A drop in testosterone may make a male feel more feminine, and re-ignite a desire to look and act more female.
A little off topic (sorry for thread theft), but it illustrates the ease of acceptance you say is common . Its just girl talk, nice,huh?
I am a natal woman coupled to a ts woman. It's not always easy (for many reasons) but she is the person I met... and that makes our relationship very different from her previous marriages. It's hard to introduce this aspect of your identity AFTER the relationship has been established... it really needs to be "there" from the get-go. Also, I would really really hate to be coupled with someone who was in the closet (cuz that puts ME in the closet too). Arguments have arisen when I felt that she wasn't "out enough" with family, friends, and community members. BTW, I never feel "less of a woman" no matter how femme she behaves, but I DO feel "more of a lesbian."
ReplyDeletethis is a really fascinating topic, and I think there are a number of interesting responses here. I've often thought that when choosing a husband,(not a boyfriend or a casual fling) a woman picks a man who acts as post to her lintel, if you'll think in terms of architecture. She wants strong, sturdy support;a foundation that is basic, not too complicated, easily understood. Adding the feminine component is not only threatening for all the reasons mentioned above, but it adds a level of mystery and complication to the husband that undermines his role as a sturdy, basic support. He(now She) is no longer so easily understood, and therefore she feels less secure. Of course, this is based on my own experience and I have no way of knowing if it's true for others. But "husband" is very different from "man", "boyfriend" and other roles that men take on in relationships with women.
ReplyDeleteWhy are ggs ok with "other" men being en femme? Because it feels non-threatening. For some women, it brings out motherly or big sisterly feelings, takes away some of the sexual tension (if it's a woman who doesn't want the femulator to be "her man" so to speak. That is all I can come up with anyway. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, so for those not put off by the idea of femulation, then there is a natural curiosity about the why and what one would get out of it. Also, it's amazing what one will do to look feminine and hard to believe all the work that goes into looking "femme" and natural. Also it's quite fascinating to talk about the differences in mannerisms, etc... between the sexes. It is fascinating to know that there are people out there just studying the way a gg acts when she's just doing ordinary things.
ReplyDeleteHugs!!
This is why I believe gg's instinctively interact with tg's in a way a gg and another gg would. As the above stated the sexual tension is gone and women have a uncanny sense and recognize femininity even if its a tg dressed enhomme. I think the tg mannerisms as opposed to more masculine manerisms are recognized and for the later a defense mechanism takes place. For instance, I observed a fragrance counter at a local highend store, I was sampling some of my favorite perfume and chatting with the saleslady and when a non tg man approached,the chemistry changed when she excused herself to help this man who seemed in kind of a hurry. When she was done she returned to me and chemistry switched back to female to female. I then kind of watched as similar situations happened when it was a lady talking to the saleslady. Same chemistry as when I was talking to her. Interesting to watch this phenomena.
ReplyDeleteSome good comments here, and I too have experienced those positive reactions from ggs. I think there is a lot to the big sister/mother/ no sexual tension thing. But I think it also has to do with something very deep in a gg's brain stem - the view of men as providers and protectors. A man en femme no longer fits that role, at least on the surface. Example, I was once in a relationship with a woman who was a pretty hard-core feminist. We had to talk through the gender role aspects of everything. For instance, she was just out of school and I established in a career, so I picked up the tab most of the time. Long talks ensued to establish that this had nothing to do with gender and that I was not patronizing her because she was a woman.
ReplyDeleteBut when we went in the bedroom everything changed. She became completely submissive, lay on her back and expected me to take full control of the situation. There was no discussion of this, we just went straight for the female and male gender roles. Of course, I would have loved to take turns coming to bed in the panties and neglige and being the submissive, passive "bottom" but the relationship ended before I brought it up and had I brought it up that probably would have been the end of things, anyway.
I would also posit a related point that we seem to get very high acceptance from lesbians, who have no expectations of how men should act in the bedroom.
I am a woman who is in love with a man (I have not met him as yet) who loves lipstick, full face make up but claims he is a real man we wouls have sex and lovemaking as a real man, and that all the hulabloo will be done only at home, he really seem a nice person, wwhat should I do
ReplyDelete